Legend Series #4 - Christopher G. Haswell (Kyushu University)

Go to #117 - Christopher G. Haswell

For our fourth interview of this series, we have another one-time interviewer, Lisa M. Barker (née Hunsberger). She had previously been interviewed by me about her YouTube channel “Yaad Pikni,” her background in graphic design, and how it related to advice for academics and students on presentation materials like PowerPoint, Slides, and Canva. She chose for her interview subject a shy, little-heard-from academic named (checking…), oh, it was me! The reason for this was that I had written a piece called “Broken English” and my ongoing advocacy of English as a lingua franca. Lisa had produced a very informative video relating to patois, creole, dialect, and variety, which I had used in my classes. I shared my piece with her, and she said she wanted to interview me about it. 

The topic of the conversation was a blog I had written and posted to my research website, “ELF Communication,” called “Broken English and the continued ‘othering’ of English speakers.” The link is provided here. It was written in response to a felt need to put out a kind of policy statement of what I try to represent in my research and university coursework. As a speaker of multiple languages and a person with worldly experience of how languages are used in various contexts, Lisa wanted to talk about the topic.

We started with a general overview of my motivation for the blog post, and I was able to introduce my text/subtext/hypertext theory of linguistic interactions: 

(10:57)

Lisa: And I'm really curious about the background to this blog post, what prompted you to write it?

Chris: Well, it's, it's like, when you study something like English literature, and you study it to a high level or you study critical thinking to a high graduate level, nothing is ever the same again. … And so, when I started studying world English and Global English teachers, back in 2003. So, it's been nearly 20 years that this thing has been switched on. So, anytime I hear phrases like “broken English,” or “not English native speaker,” a “non native speaker of English,” it's something that triggers me to think about the reason why this is being used. So is it being used in a positive is probably the wrong word to say, but is it being used in a way that is positively discriminating and making sure that the right decisions are being made in order to put the right person in the right classroom or choose the right material for the right students? For the goal of the course? Or is it being used in a negatively discriminatory way in order to exclude something from the classroom or from the students experience.

Please allow me to make the case for the text/subtext/hypertext method of viewing interactions. We all have the ability to monitor our own speech (something I notice I do A LOT when I am being recorded - if you ever meet me in real life, I speak a lot more quickly and fluently than I do on the podcast), and this comes with the commensurate ability to monitor others. When you choose to activate this ability, it is like watching the world with subtitles, community notes, and pop-up explanations a la “Behind The Music” for those of you old enough to remember the reference. That is not to say that all of this interfering hypertext is true or contradictory to the message, but it is Socratically consistent: based on your experience, you question the message as you receive it. It always confuses me when people for whom it is ostensibly their job to monitor others' output are seemingly unwilling to do so for themselves. The understanding of the text/subtext/hypertext dynamic is the reason I embrace the words of the great Dr Maya Angelou: “When people tell you who they are, believe them the first time.”

Lisa then went on to ask how an ‘ELF mindset’ in relation to second language interactions using English has affected my approach to language teaching:

(31:28) That has been what my research has been for the last 10 years to try and increase the amount of peer-to-peer interaction using English as a shared second language, linguistic resource. And in that way, reducing the tension. Because in heuristic terms, if you're a Japanese user of English, and you'll never have the chance to speak to a Chinese user of English, then you might have an image of that person before you speak to them. And that will cloud your efforts in that interaction. Whereas if you go into the interaction, knowing that their performance is going to be different from yours, but also your performance is going to be different from what they expect from what they've seen in American movies, or listened to in English, Anglophone radio or whatever, or in the textbooks. If you both go into that interaction, knowing that, then you're prepared for it. And negotiation can be more free-flowing, and you're more likely to achieve the goal of the interaction.

Here we see the word “heuristic” being brought up again, as it has in blogs on previous podcasts in this series (I know, I keep bringing it up). Expectation before interaction is an important way we frame what is to come: what we expect determines how we prepare. When we expect the interaction to be in English, a second-language user of English may practice what they are going to say, but not how they are going to say it, nor how they might adapt it based on the context of the interaction.

I could go on, and I do in the podcast. Please feel free to listen, consider, and send any comments you may have about the interview. I know Lisa and I would be happy to hear them. But, before you pass judgment, go on - have a listen!

Go to #117 - Christopher G. Haswell